C/C++ Is Too Hard?

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Comments

  • [blue][ITALIC]It is hard not to agree with a statement, that MFC with its 'wizards' went a "little" overboard, not to mention that these 'wizards' do not work properly.

    On the other hand, to 'code' everything by hand is also a little bit off. I think, the good coding should be somewhere in the middle.

    Currently, for example, I am developing the new IDE for coding Win32 programs in Assembly and I have a lot of automation done for that purpose. Of course, I am not going overboard - not as it is done with MFC, but I have a fair amount of code coded for you by the IDE, but so, what. I made it optional, so people who like to code by hand will be happy, at the same time, people who need fast development can click a couple of times and get the MDI application skeleton coded for them, so they can add more functionality and get their program designed faster.

    In my opinion - better be in the middle and flexible, instead of going on some edge - one side or the other.

    Cheers, everyone![/ITALIC][/blue]

    [GREEN]
    I follow your statement and as a matter of fact I often use a homemade application skeleton when coding Java apps. However, the real issue is whether or not you understand what is going on and have both insight and a feeling about your source code and, as a result, is capable of coding the entire program from scratch. And one thing is certain; if you start out programming using a Visual IDE you will not obtain it.

    Personally, the only reason I use a skeleton is that I have coded so much Java in the past 4 years that I have achieved a comprehensive feeling about the entire API and therefore find it annoying to write all the fundamentals every time I want to make a progam. But for Win32 C++ apps I write everything starting in a blank text file because I know there are still many phenomenons I can learn more about.

    For the same reason, I will not discard the possibility that some day I will start using an IDE (probably CodeWarrior or Intel's C++ compiler) when I reach the same state as I have done with Java ;-)
    [/GREEN]
  • SephirothSephiroth Fayetteville, NC, USA
    Hey I like where this is going! I also get bored writing my WinMain() function every time over and over again, as well as other basics that are needed, such as the functions to deal with GL windows. I think I'll make a static template with just those functions and just copy it into my new app directory and then fill in the code myself. However, VISUAL SUCKS! :p

    -[italic][b][red]S[/red][purple]e[/purple][blue]p[/blue][green]h[/green][red]i[/red][purple]r[/purple][blue]o[/blue][green]t[/green][red]h[/red][/b][/italic]

  • : Hey I like where this is going! I also get bored writing my WinMain() function every time over and over again, as well as other basics that are needed, such as the functions to deal with GL windows. I think I'll make a static template with just those functions and just copy it into my new app directory and then fill in the code myself. However, VISUAL SUCKS! :p
    :
    : -[italic][b][red]S[/red][purple]e[/purple][blue]p[/blue][green]h[/green][red]i[/red][purple]r[/purple][blue]o[/blue][green]t[/green][red]h[/red][/b][/italic]
    :
    :
    I don't appreciate all the knocking Visual Development is getting by the recent replies. I have been using Visual Basic for 4 years and there is not anything i have come across that could not be accomplished with VB that C, C++ or any other Old MS-DOS originating language can do. Visual is the new thing, and you guys are just gonna have to deal with it:p
  • : [b][red]This message was edited by xbob at 2003-5-25 7:12:24[/red][/b][hr]
    : : I wanted to share with you the level of coding knowledge instructors now have to offer at colleges nation-wide. This angered me in so many ways it is insane. This is my friend on ICQ:
    : : [code]
    : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: next year i HAVE to take Visual Basic
    : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: it's mandatory
    : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: soooo *edited*
    : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: they replaced the c++ class with VB
    : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: they said they were replacing it because "C++ is outdated"
    : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: thats wut they said when i was choosing classes
    : : [/code]
    : : Now I am not Bill Gates or anything, but Basic can NOT stand up to C++ in terms of overall performance. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am betting they went from a DOS C++ class to a Windoze VisualBasic class, not realizing that C++ can also compile for Windoze, whether it's visual or not. Just wanted to share this with my fellow coders who actually code and don't just point and click.
    : :
    : : -[italic][b][red]S[/red][purple]e[/purple][blue]p[/blue][green]h[/green][red]i[/red][purple]r[/purple][blue]o[/blue][green]t[/green][red]h[/red][/b][/italic]
    : :
    :
    : [ITALIC]Now I am not Bill Gates or anything, but Basic can NOT stand up to C++ in terms of overall performance[/ITALIC][BLUE]
    : True, which probably is why you never see a game developer studio seeking VB programmers, for example ;)
    : However, I do believe that VB can be used for many applications where speed isn't that important (otherwise it would have left the market long ago).
    : [/BLUE]
    :
    :
    :
    Alright, after reading the many replies that knock Visual Basic, i would like someone to tell me something that C, C++, C#, Visual C++ or any other language can do that the new Visual Basic.NET cannot do. If you do manage to find something, email me at MeHaveMessage@hotmail.com I will be more than happy to prove you wrong:p
  • : : [b][red]This message was edited by xbob at 2003-5-25 7:12:24[/red][/b][hr]
    : : : I wanted to share with you the level of coding knowledge instructors now have to offer at colleges nation-wide. This angered me in so many ways it is insane. This is my friend on ICQ:
    : : : [code]
    : : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: next year i HAVE to take Visual Basic
    : : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: it's mandatory
    : : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: soooo *edited*
    : : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: they replaced the c++ class with VB
    : : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: they said they were replacing it because "C++ is outdated"
    : : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: thats wut they said when i was choosing classes
    : : : [/code]
    : : : Now I am not Bill Gates or anything, but Basic can NOT stand up to C++ in terms of overall performance. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am betting they went from a DOS C++ class to a Windoze VisualBasic class, not realizing that C++ can also compile for Windoze, whether it's visual or not. Just wanted to share this with my fellow coders who actually code and don't just point and click.
    : : :
    : : : -[italic][b][red]S[/red][purple]e[/purple][blue]p[/blue][green]h[/green][red]i[/red][purple]r[/purple][blue]o[/blue][green]t[/green][red]h[/red][/b][/italic]
    : : :
    : :
    : : [ITALIC]Now I am not Bill Gates or anything, but Basic can NOT stand up to C++ in terms of overall performance[/ITALIC][BLUE]
    : : True, which probably is why you never see a game developer studio seeking VB programmers, for example ;)
    : : However, I do believe that VB can be used for many applications where speed isn't that important (otherwise it would have left the market long ago).
    : : [/BLUE]
    : :
    : :
    : :
    : Alright, after reading the many replies that knock Visual Basic, i would like someone to tell me something that C, C++, C#, Visual C++ or any other language can do that the new Visual Basic.NET cannot do. If you do manage to find something, email me at MeHaveMessage@hotmail.com I will be more than happy to prove you wrong:p
    :
    [blue]I am almost sure you will get some challenges to complete, but, I think they were talking about the performance too. If you search or parse the large file for some text - I doubt that VB can do it faster than VC++. Suppose, you have a program, where you have to wait until file is processed in 20 sec (VB) against 2 sec (VC++). If we talking commercial here - the product MUST be written in VC++ or your software house goes under... simple logic... performance matters. On the other hand the time of development - VB beats C++ COMPLETELY! But again, you can code a program fast, but will it sell good and you make some profit to saty afloat?.. - pure philosophy - choose the development environment accordingly. You need some bookstore database FAST - nothing better then VB with MS-Access, but if you need the text or image processor - C++ all the way.
    [/blue]
  • : : [b][red]This message was edited by xbob at 2003-5-25 7:12:24[/red][/b][hr]
    : : : I wanted to share with you the level of coding knowledge instructors now have to offer at colleges nation-wide. This angered me in so many ways it is insane. This is my friend on ICQ:
    : : : [code]
    : : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: next year i HAVE to take Visual Basic
    : : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: it's mandatory
    : : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: soooo *edited*
    : : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: they replaced the c++ class with VB
    : : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: they said they were replacing it because "C++ is outdated"
    : : : [CMF]-Sc(+)pE: thats wut they said when i was choosing classes
    : : : [/code]
    : : : Now I am not Bill Gates or anything, but Basic can NOT stand up to C++ in terms of overall performance. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am betting they went from a DOS C++ class to a Windoze VisualBasic class, not realizing that C++ can also compile for Windoze, whether it's visual or not. Just wanted to share this with my fellow coders who actually code and don't just point and click.
    : : :
    : : : -[italic][b][red]S[/red][purple]e[/purple][blue]p[/blue][green]h[/green][red]i[/red][purple]r[/purple][blue]o[/blue][green]t[/green][red]h[/red][/b][/italic]
    : : :
    : :
    : : [ITALIC]Now I am not Bill Gates or anything, but Basic can NOT stand up to C++ in terms of overall performance[/ITALIC][BLUE]
    : : True, which probably is why you never see a game developer studio seeking VB programmers, for example ;)
    : : However, I do believe that VB can be used for many applications where speed isn't that important (otherwise it would have left the market long ago).
    : : [/BLUE]
    : :
    : :
    : :
    : Alright, after reading the many replies that knock Visual Basic, i would like someone to tell me something that C, C++, C#, Visual C++ or any other language can do that the new Visual Basic.NET cannot do. If you do manage to find something, email me at MeHaveMessage@hotmail.com I will be more than happy to prove you wrong:p
    :

    [GREEN]
    I think we are misunderstanding each other in this debate...

    We have to distinguish between programmers and software-designers, since they represent two completely different worlds and should not be compared.

    As for software-designing VB, .NET, J++, VisualStudio and other RAD-IDEs are without any doubt THE best tools for several reasons:

    1. You can create applications enormously fast.

    2. They are incredibly user-friendly and will guide you through any kind of problem that occurs in the development process.

    3. It takes no more than a week or two to learn how to create applications with these tools, no matter your prior knowledge.

    4. They will put so much debug/help information in you .exe, and link so much pre-compiled code into your program, that if some error occurs, you will be able to spot it in no time.

    Programmers, on the other hand, usually don't care much about how long time it takes to create the program, as long as the result is fast, stable and intelligently implemented; which is utterly impossible when using RAD-IDEs.

    So please add "...from a software-designers point of view", when suggesting that C++ is outdated!
    [/GREEN]
  • [b][red]This message was edited by adrianxw at 2003-10-8 2:51:6[/red][/b][hr]
    That is one hell of a bump of an ancient thread there - smells like a troll.

    Med venlig hilsen,

    Adrian...



  • Did anybody email him some challenges. I did and he could not prove me wrong!
    [hr]
    When it came down to it I dropped everything and ran.
    -Ramza Final Fantasy Tactics

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