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Ohhh yeahhhh..... A Dos Messageboard!!!

Dodgy Del BoyDodgy Del Boy Member Posts: 42
Hi all,

First I'd just like to say thanks to the Webmaster for finally adding an MS-DOS messageboard. You see, I've asked him countless times for it, and here it is!!! I'm so glad!!!

Anyway, lets get to the point. First off, how do I seperate DOS 8 from Windows ME? I've tried the old 'Editing MSDOS.SYS' method but it doesn't seem to work.

Secondly, can anyone give me some code, (any language), that does basically the same thing as UNDELETE.EXE? (In C, BASIC or asm would be preferred).

Finally, I just wanna know what you guys think of dos. Personally, I love it and wish it was still the dominant OS instead of (shudder) Windoze. Am I crazy? Tell me wot u think.

See y'all later
(:---Dodgy Del Boy---:)

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Comments

  • AsmGuru62AsmGuru62 Member Posts: 6,519
    DOS is OK for some applications - simple games, automated lines, etc. The only drawback - it can't run few apps at once - and I am not talking about the Keyboard interrupt sitting resident and popping up like SideKick(tm)... I mean really running... at the same time... Here is only Windows can do it...

  • JaywalkJaywalk Member Posts: 105
    Hmm, probably look in the directory for directory entries marked as deleted and, well, unmark them. Have to look up some things for this...

    It's good to see a DOS board. I quite like DOS especially since it is much simpler to use. Mouse is easier than keyboard for beginners, but it can't keep up with someone who actually knows how to type. And it seems to respond faster to user commands faster than 'doze on a machine 10x the speed. Nice and straightforward to code too (most of the time at least). You can't do things like ren *.txt *.asm or copy *.* .igfile.wow in Windows. There's the obvious multitasking thing, of course, but that's not so much of an issue if you happen to be in a windows dos box. You can't get nearly as much memory as with windows, but - again for dos boxes - you have to share the 640k you get with practically nothing. And you can do whatever you like in a dos box 'cause it's a virtual machine.

    I sometimes miss the days of true DOS, but we did need a change. I'll probably continue doing a little real mode code for a long time, but you're missing out if that's all you do.


  • Dodgy Del BoyDodgy Del Boy Member Posts: 42
    I suppose AsmGuru62 is right and Jaywalk is right. DOS had its day and now Windows rules all, like it or not.

    One of the reasons I don't really program for Windows is that I can't get hold of a Visual Basic sort of thing. Is there an old version anywhere (for windows) available for free download? If you can't manage that, an alternative will do.

    Continuing on the 'I love DOS' note, does anyone reading this like Windows XP? I don't. Price, activation, new look, incompatibility, hate it all.

    I know most of you guys already do, but: support small developers!!! Thats for any newbies out there.

    bye once again
    (:---Dodgy Del Boy---:)

    Dos is great!!! (thats gonna provoke a few thoughts)....


  • Stoic JokerStoic Joker Member Posts: 84
    Greetings
    seperate DOS 8 from Windows?? If I recall correctly there is no realmode DOS in WinME, But you could give this a shot. The io.sys file on the WinME C: drive is 107kb the io.sys file on the WinME boot floppy is 114kb(Hm... whats missing?). there's a patch for WinME to enable realmode DOS support that uses the boot floppy's io.sys file & some other stuff I can't remember.

    Oh Yeah(just remembered) WindowsXP will give you a bootable floppy that says WinME DOS 8 that may be a good place to start also.

    Hope that's useful
    Stoic Joker









    : Hi all,
    :
    : First I'd just like to say thanks to the Webmaster for finally adding an MS-DOS messageboard. You see, I've asked him countless times for it, and here it is!!! I'm so glad!!!
    :
    : Anyway, lets get to the point. First off, how do I seperate DOS 8 from Windows ME? I've tried the old 'Editing MSDOS.SYS' method but it doesn't seem to work.
    :
    : Secondly, can anyone give me some code, (any language), that does basically the same thing as UNDELETE.EXE? (In C, BASIC or asm would be preferred).
    :
    : Finally, I just wanna know what you guys think of dos. Personally, I love it and wish it was still the dominant OS instead of (shudder) Windoze. Am I crazy? Tell me wot u think.
    :
    : See y'all later
    : (:---Dodgy Del Boy---:)
    :


  • Eric TetzEric Tetz Member Posts: 2,141
    : Finally, I just wanna know what you guys think of dos. Personally, I love it and wish it was still the dominant OS instead of (shudder) Windoze.

    *shudder*

    : Am I crazy?

    Yup.

    : Tell me wot u think.

    Why? I like being able to run dozens of apps at the same time. I like virtual memory, flat address spaces, and protected memory. And for heaven sakes, I like GUIs, especially a GUI with a consistant user interface.

    Is it command lines you like? Then I have one word for you: Unix. Its command line has always been orders of maginitude more powerful that DOS ever was, and it is built upon a real multitasking operating system.

    The only thing I miss about DOS was having an operating system that was so simple you could really hope to understand it all.

    Cheers,
    Eric


  • AsmGuru62AsmGuru62 Member Posts: 6,519
    Well, Eric, DOS still has its place in machinery - like some automated line or inspection system - whatever - for controlling the hardware. If you sell you product - you need an included OS - guess what cheaper DOS or Windows?! Of course, as a developer you want a pile of apps running at once, but if you a factory worker - you do not care - you came to work, boot DOS and see 3 buttons on the screen: "Run", "Stop" and "Setup". DOS has acceptable graphics - they do not have to be superfast - just allowing to enjoy your work... and see the results. Besides, if you want to control metall with Windows - it will be just on the way with all the multitasking and swapping files, etc... if you want something written to disk RIGHT NOW - DOS will make it faster then Windows (sometimes) - because Window has to go through the pile of caching operations... You can write a device driver, but you will also pay huge money for the programming, because these people ain't cheap... Also, small busineses like DOS - like if you own a video-store or small warehouse, or car dealership, etc. They do not need sofisticated programming: SQL and crap - just let them to maintain database and print their forms... So, yep, DOS still has its hiche as an OS for some people.

    Cheers!


  • Dodgy Del BoyDodgy Del Boy Member Posts: 42
    Thanks AsmGuru62, its nice to hear someone supporting my idea for a change. I totally agree with you about the 'Small businesses like dos' part.

    I think that if it wasn't for dos remaining in win9x, there would be quite a few less programmers. One reason is because a lot of us can't afford 500 visual basic/C++ stuff.

    Another thing that I like of DOS apps is their individuality; you don't have your great little program running in a window; you get it full screen, free to create its own GUI.

    Sure, its a bit of extra work, but when you're a programmer I'm sure that we all know that its not always easy.

    See ya later,
    (:---Dodgy Del Boy---:)

  • Eric TetzEric Tetz Member Posts: 2,141
    : Well, Eric, DOS still has its place in machinery - like some automated line or inspection system - whatever - for controlling the hardware.

    Yeah, it's used in a lot of embedded applications, mostly because it's small, requiring fewer resources.

    : If you sell you product - you need an included OS - guess what cheaper DOS or Windows?!

    Linux. You can't get cheaper than free.

    : Of course, as a developer you want a pile of apps running at once, but if you a factory worker - you do not care - you came to work, boot DOS and see 3 buttons on the screen: "Run", "Stop" and "Setup".

    Sure, of course. I'm not arguing that DOS is useless, just that I would never want to return the days of DOS as a desktop operating system. I want my computer to do more than "Run", "Stop", and "Setup".

    Sure, anything you can write for Windows could also be written for DOS, but it's harder. I can write a Notepad clone under Windows in half an hour. Try that under DOS. When programmers no longer have to worry about stuff like writing their own GUI libries and device drivers, they can pump out a lot more software. The ridiculous amount of software available for Windows is proof enough of that.

    : DOS has acceptable graphics - they do not have to be superfast - just allowing to enjoy your work... and see the results.

    You might not even need graphics! Plenty of ASCII interfaces in the world. Or the device might not even have a screen, just an LED or something. If you do need graphics, they could be [italic]faster[/italic] than anything you could do under Windows - it's just a lot more work. You basically have to write your own video card driver(s). ;)

    : Besides, if you want to control metall with Windows - it will be just on the way with all the multitasking and swapping files, etc... if you want something written to disk RIGHT NOW - DOS will make it faster then Windows (sometimes) - because Window has to go through the pile of caching operations...

    Caching is designed to speed things up. DOS does caching, too (remember smartdisk?). But that's a digression. I agree with your point, that Windows is not useful as a real-time, embedded operating system. But then, nobody ever said it was. Back in the day, even DOS was too bloated for embedded programming. They used dedicated embedded operating systems. DOS is useful for embedded work now because you can buy 386s for a few dollars instead of thousands of dollars, and RAM is pennies per MB instead of hundreds of dollars per KB.

    : You can write a device driver, but you will also pay huge money for the programming, because these people ain't cheap...

    Neither are embedded programmers. My father-in-law writes DOS code; he
    makes six figures.

    : Also, small busineses like DOS - like if you own a video-store or small warehouse, or car dealership, etc. They do not need sofisticated programming: SQL and crap - just let them to maintain database and print their forms...

    Sure. Of course, most of those ASCII-interface systems you see are old, running on older hardware. Newer systems run on modern operating systems, and they reap the benefits, such as being able to have all your stores' POS systems networked, or integrated with the Web.

    : So, yep, DOS still has its hiche as an OS for some people.

    Sure enough. I just don't want it on my desktop. ;)

    Cheers!
    Eric


  • gopoogopoo Member Posts: 74
    : : Well, Eric, DOS still has its place in machinery - like some automated line or inspection system - whatever - for controlling the hardware.
    :
    : Yeah, it's used in a lot of embedded applications, mostly because it's small, requiring fewer resources.
    :
    : : If you sell you product - you need an included OS - guess what cheaper DOS or Windows?!
    :
    : Linux. You can't get cheaper than free.
    :
    : : Of course, as a developer you want a pile of apps running at once, but if you a factory worker - you do not care - you came to work, boot DOS and see 3 buttons on the screen: "Run", "Stop" and "Setup".
    :
    : Sure, of course. I'm not arguing that DOS is useless, just that I would never want to return the days of DOS as a desktop operating system. I want my computer to do more than "Run", "Stop", and "Setup".
    :
    : Sure, anything you can write for Windows could also be written for DOS, but it's harder. I can write a Notepad clone under Windows in half an hour. Try that under DOS. When programmers no longer have to worry about stuff like writing their own GUI libries and device drivers, they can pump out a lot more software. The ridiculous amount of software available for Windows is proof enough of that.
    :
    : : DOS has acceptable graphics - they do not have to be superfast - just allowing to enjoy your work... and see the results.
    :
    : You might not even need graphics! Plenty of ASCII interfaces in the world. Or the device might not even have a screen, just an LED or something. If you do need graphics, they could be [italic]faster[/italic] than anything you could do under Windows - it's just a lot more work. You basically have to write your own video card driver(s). ;)
    :
    : : Besides, if you want to control metall with Windows - it will be just on the way with all the multitasking and swapping files, etc... if you want something written to disk RIGHT NOW - DOS will make it faster then Windows (sometimes) - because Window has to go through the pile of caching operations...
    :
    : Caching is designed to speed things up. DOS does caching, too (remember smartdisk?). But that's a digression. I agree with your point, that Windows is not useful as a real-time, embedded operating system. But then, nobody ever said it was. Back in the day, even DOS was too bloated for embedded programming. They used dedicated embedded operating systems. DOS is useful for embedded work now because you can buy 386s for a few dollars instead of thousands of dollars, and RAM is pennies per MB instead of hundreds of dollars per KB.
    :
    : : You can write a device driver, but you will also pay huge money for the programming, because these people ain't cheap...
    :
    : Neither are embedded programmers. My father-in-law writes DOS code; he
    : makes six figures.
    :
    : : Also, small busineses like DOS - like if you own a video-store or small warehouse, or car dealership, etc. They do not need sofisticated programming: SQL and crap - just let them to maintain database and print their forms...
    :
    : Sure. Of course, most of those ASCII-interface systems you see are old, running on older hardware. Newer systems run on modern operating systems, and they reap the benefits, such as being able to have all your stores' POS systems networked, or integrated with the Web.
    :
    : : So, yep, DOS still has its hiche as an OS for some people.
    :
    : Sure enough. I just don't want it on my desktop. ;)
    :
    : Cheers!
    : Eric
    :
    :
    my think told me that
    ms dos>>>>>window
    isn't
    it?
    i don"t
    want to make any argu?
    but i can make notepad usig turbo c in just 15 minutes




  • Eric TetzEric Tetz Member Posts: 2,141
    : my think told me that
    : ms dos>>>>>window
    : isn't
    : it?

    Hmmm... don't know what the heck you're trying to say. DOS [italic]is greater than[/italic] Windows? DOS [italic]is equivelant to[/italic] Windows?

    : i don"t
    : want to make any argu?

    What?

    : but i can make notepad usig turbo c in just 15 minutes

    If you could write a DOS Notepad in a [italic]week[/italic], that would be truly impressive. Let's go over Notepad's features...
    [code=ffffff]
    * Full screen editing of up to 64KB of text, with the ability to
    wrap text, and scroll visible text in any direction
    * Find/Replace text, forward or backwards
    * One level of undo
    * Full mouse support
    * Customizable font (including True Type fonts)
    * Supports numerous CUA keystrokes for editing:
    Cursor:
    RIGHT ARROW - next character
    LEFT ARROW - previous character
    DOWN ARROW - next line
    UP ARROW - previous line
    HOME - beginning of line
    END - end of line
    PAGE DOWN - next page
    PAGE UP - previous page
    CONTROL+HOME - top of document
    CONTROL+END - bottom of document
    Selection:
    SHIFT +
    - any text the cursor moves over is selected
    CONTROL+A - select all
    Editing:
    DEL - delete text
    CONTROL+X - cut text
    CONTROL+C - copy text
    CONTROL+Y - paste text
    CONTROL+I - insert tab
    CONTROL+Z - undo
    Searching:
    CONTROL+F - find text
    F3 - repeat last find
    CONTROL+H - replace text
    CONTROL+G - goto line number
    Document:
    CONTROL+N - new
    CONTROL+O - open
    CONTROL+S - save
    CONTROL+A - save as
    CONTROL+P - print
    * Re-sizable window, can be places anywhere on the screen
    * Can run multiple instances to edit different files at the same time
    * Can copy and paste between multiple instances
    * Has sophisticated "Open" and "Save" dialogs that:
    - allow you to browse your entire machine, or other machines on the
    network, to find files.
    - able to show you the size, type and last modified date of each file
    - allows you to create new folders, move files, create files, delete
    files, etc.
    * Can print to virtually any printer on the market, including Postscript
    printers, in portrait or landscape, with customizable margins, and more...
    [/code]
    "Hey!", you say, "That's not fair! Most of those 'features' are provided by Windows!". That's my point. Because Windows has such powerful, easy to use building blocks laying around, like edit controls and common dialogs, you can whip out sophisticated programs like Notepad in a few minutes. Notepad doesn't seem sophisticated, because in comparison to other Windows programs it's not. But try to duplicate it's functionality in DOS, and you will find out how sophisticated it really is.

    Cheers,
    Eric



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