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de facto

CyGuyCyGuy Posts: 312Member
Hello ppl,
I have been learning various programming languages, however the ease of use that QBASIC gives is still very appealing. I hate what programming has become, full of class and sytem calls; the environment is a clouded mess of system variables that really serve no purpose in actual application.

I guess my question is what is the de facto today? I want a parser that follows you while you write, and catches syntax errors in the API, not at run-time. Is there a newer version of BASIC out there that makes windows programming simple?? I am willing to go back to line numbers if I have to. If I have to continue, I will not take a break, until I have an environment that IS simple to program. I mean come on, simple selection box, yes it is part of my window, why should i name it? it's just a box. I would rather draw my own... and make it a selection sphere, then put my event handle inside the sphere function.

thank you for your comments

Russ

Comments

  • anthrax11anthrax11 Posts: 511Member
    : Hello ppl,
    : I have been learning various programming languages, however the ease of use that QBASIC gives is still very appealing. I hate what programming has become, full of class and sytem calls; the environment is a clouded mess of system variables that really serve no purpose in actual application.
    :
    : I guess my question is what is the de facto today? I want a parser that follows you while you write, and catches syntax errors in the API, not at run-time. Is there a newer version of BASIC out there that makes windows programming simple?? I am willing to go back to line numbers if I have to. If I have to continue, I will not take a break, until I have an environment that IS simple to program. I mean come on, simple selection box, yes it is part of my window, why should i name it? it's just a box. I would rather draw my own... and make it a selection sphere, then put my event handle inside the sphere function.
    :
    : thank you for your comments
    :
    : Russ
    :

    Newer version of basic? Yeah, It's called VISUAL BASIC. The problem with simple programming is that it runs too darn slow and executables become so big. What is more, you have less control over details and it takes all the fun in programming away. Ever tried programming for windows in assembly? A simple program that displays a message box is 1 KB in asembler, about 4KB in C and a lot more in other languages. The assembly version runs fastest, but it's a bit more complicated. Once you get the hang of it, it will be very easy programming in low-level languages. Besides, why should I pay a load of money to get a childishly simple programming environment, when i can do good old assembly or C for free. Programming isn't meant to be simple, you need to have some brains to do this.
    Happy programming:)
  • CyGuyCyGuy Posts: 312Member
    [b][red]This message was edited by CyGuy at 2005-10-24 4:1:39[/red][/b][hr]
    : : Hello ppl,
    : : I have been learning various programming languages, however the ease of use that QBASIC gives is still very appealing. I hate what programming has become, full of class and sytem calls; the environment is a clouded mess of system variables that really serve no purpose in actual application.
    : :
    : : I guess my question is what is the de facto today? I want a parser that follows you while you write, and catches syntax errors in the API, not at run-time. Is there a newer version of BASIC out there that makes windows programming simple?? I am willing to go back to line numbers if I have to. If I have to continue, I will not take a break, until I have an environment that IS simple to program. I mean come on, simple selection box, yes it is part of my window, why should i name it? it's just a box. I would rather draw my own... and make it a selection sphere, then put my event handle inside the sphere function.
    : :
    : : thank you for your comments
    : :
    : : Russ
    : :
    :
    : Newer version of basic? Yeah, It's called VISUAL BASIC. The problem with simple programming is that it runs too darn slow and executables become so big. What is more, you have less control over details and it takes all the fun in programming away. Ever tried programming for windows in assembly? A simple program that displays a message box is 1 KB in asembler, about 4KB in C and a lot more in other languages. The assembly version runs fastest, but it's a bit more complicated. Once you get the hang of it, it will be very easy programming in low-level languages. Besides, why should I pay a load of money to get a childishly simple programming environment, when i can do good old assembly or C for free. Programming isn't meant to be simple, you need to have some brains to do this.
    : Happy programming:)
    :
    I must agree, the only thing about assembly, is it is so close to machine code that it is scary. I bought borland C++ personal, and feel I'd rather be ripped off by Microsoft. You are a few chapters ahead of me; YOu should make a version of basic, heck, I'd use it.


  • IDKIDK Posts: 1,784Member
    [b][red]This message was edited by IDK at 2005-10-25 11:37:0[/red][/b][hr]
    : Hello ppl,
    : I have been learning various programming languages, however the ease of use that QBASIC gives is still very appealing. I hate what programming has become, full of class and sytem calls; the environment is a clouded mess of system variables that really serve no purpose in actual application.
    :
    : I guess my question is what is the de facto today? I want a parser that follows you while you write, and catches syntax errors in the API, not at run-time. Is there a newer version of BASIC out there that makes windows programming simple?? I am willing to go back to line numbers if I have to. If I have to continue, I will not take a break, until I have an environment that IS simple to program. I mean come on, simple selection box, yes it is part of my window, why should i name it? it's just a box. I would rather draw my own... and make it a selection sphere, then put my event handle inside the sphere function.
    :
    : thank you for your comments
    :
    : Russ
    :
    The good old programming style without OO was really good for single thread processors, but then the computers evolved and someone invented OO, wich was really usable for that.

    I had problems with learning OO to...
    I think C, is pretty much like QBASIC, or assembly, but without the scary part...
    C++ got all the OO features, and you could use them when you feel for it, since the compiler you got should support C and C++

    Go with C, and it wont be a to much change I think

    The one and only [b]Niklas Ulvinge[/b] [white]aka [b]IDK[/b][/white]



  • CyGuyCyGuy Posts: 312Member
    : [b][red]This message was edited by IDK at 2005-10-25 11:37:0[/red][/b][hr]
    : : Hello ppl,
    : : I have been learning various programming languages, however the ease of use that QBASIC gives is still very appealing. I hate what programming has become, full of class and sytem calls; the environment is a clouded mess of system variables that really serve no purpose in actual application.
    : :
    : : I guess my question is what is the de facto today? I want a parser that follows you while you write, and catches syntax errors in the API, not at run-time. Is there a newer version of BASIC out there that makes windows programming simple?? I am willing to go back to line numbers if I have to. If I have to continue, I will not take a break, until I have an environment that IS simple to program. I mean come on, simple selection box, yes it is part of my window, why should i name it? it's just a box. I would rather draw my own... and make it a selection sphere, then put my event handle inside the sphere function.
    : :
    : : thank you for your comments
    : :
    : : Russ
    : :
    : The good old programming style without OO was really good for single thread processors, but then the computers evolved and someone invented OO, wich was really usable for that.
    :
    : I had problems with learning OO to...
    : I think C, is pretty much like QBASIC, or assembly, but without the scary part...
    : C++ got all the OO features, and you could use them when you feel for it, since the compiler you got should support C and C++
    :
    : Go with C, and it wont be a to much change I think
    :
    : The one and only [b]Niklas Ulvinge[/b] [white]aka [b]IDK[/b][/white]
    :
    :
    :
    :
    that is exactly what I am talking about; I have also coded in Turbo Pascal, which is what made me go for a Borland product like C++ BuilderX... I have no problems with the idea of including libraries to expand on functions and link to drivers. The added functions are a blessing, but the objects, constructors, and so called polymorphizms make coding more like a maze than a structured environment. I just miss the days when the library was the object, and you could use it for face value. I haven't been more frustrated since I had to learn Segment:Offset - and what good is it now?? You have shed some light with you words on thread PIPELINES or is it pipeline threads. any way I am greatful
  • IDKIDK Posts: 1,784Member
    : that is exactly what I am talking about; I have also coded in Turbo Pascal, which is what made me go for a Borland product like C++ BuilderX... I have no problems with the idea of including libraries to expand on functions and link to drivers. The added functions are a blessing, but the objects, constructors, and so called polymorphizms make coding more like a maze than a structured environment. I just miss the days when the library was the object, and you could use it for face value. I haven't been more frustrated since I had to learn Segment:Offset - and what good is it now?? You have shed some light with you words on thread PIPELINES or is it pipeline threads. any way I am greatful
    :
    I think, if I'm not wrong, wich maybe I am, that you can use C without constructors and such... But noone else does that, so you will be on your own, wich then makes it impossible to learn from anyone else...

    If you'll try C#, wich is 100% OO, you'll see that OO isn't very hard when you got it. C++ and those alike are a combination of OO and the old single thread way, that's why I haven't got enough mind power and mind to use it.

    Actaully pipeline thread's is a technice that increses the processor speed, it require an asm programmer to think a little harder...
    What the new computers are using is multiple threading, wich runs a lot of threads at the same time, that's why you can do some things while other things are processing. In single threading you got control over the whole computer, and nothing could interupt you, but in multithreading, the OS could take control over your program and stop it from doing things. You only got as much memmory as you need in multi, but in single you got all ram available.

    [grey]The one and only [b]Niklas Ulvinge[/b][/grey] [white]aka [b]IDK[/b][/white]

  • CyGuyCyGuy Posts: 312Member
    I see. another thaks is in order for explaining the way threading works in the application - OS relationship. I wonder about these things.

    C# is not on the agenda, although that may change when I get closer to the MS-cert. I am learning Java Script is school, and I have mixed feeling. It does offer OO... yet learning curve is slow for non-programmers trying learn. They also teach that math is not necessary to become a programmer, so I am stuck at the mercy of this learning process. The school does offer an ASM coarse which I will definetly do, although it is not transferable for anything here.

    That said, I shall learn C++, a sophmore/junior course (I am freshman w/experience), throughout my schooling, maybe engineering or system major. There are ways to test slingshot around some courses after the 4-year BS level. I do believe in the power of mathematics. How very un-american of me :~)


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