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Mark, could I trouble you for more input?

JackCJackC Posts: 7Member
Hello :-)

Since I figured out how to use the cheat codes in the "Vietnam 2 Special Assignment" game, I've come to think that the VC characters are able to reason within the game. Is this true?

Example: When I type in the "ghost" code, I disappear. Prior to that I was being chased and shot at by the charging VC. Then in the ghost mode the characters seemed to be puzzled as to where I went. They mill around searching for me in the spot that I took my leave. They actually look puzzled in the expressions on their faces. Then, when I reappear (usually to their rear) I toss a grenade over their heads and they scurry for safety and of course start a new firefight to take me out.

And one last thing: I've traveled through all 12 levels in the ghost mode just to see what is going on inside the game without making contact. To my amazement, the characters are actively walking guard and doing other things related to their duties. Which might explain why they are not always in the same exact spots, and the numbers vary during the replay of the levels. In fact, I've altered the games firefights by appearing in places (up on high peaks with enemy lookouts and other seemingly forbidden areas for the normal run of the game)that I shouldn't have normal access to. However, the characters adapt to whatever the situation calls for. Although they seem surprised that I'm in a particular location I shouldn't be.

Oh yes, if you ever play that game, to get out of a cheat mode, you just type the T and then retype the name of the cheat code you want back to normal. You can go in and out constantly, and you can cross the blocked barriers (open space where you see another area of the game, but I guess the originators want blocked off so that you follow a correct route, because eventually you end up in that area)by using the "ghost" mode.

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! ---Jack

Comments

  • kreitlerkreitler Posts: 218Member
    [b][red]This message was edited by kreitler at 2003-4-14 7:28:12[/red][/b][hr]
    Hi Jack,
    So...[italic]are[/italic] the computer-controller characters reasoning? Good question. The answer is..."probably, sort of."

    There are a bunch of ways to implement game AI, and some work better for various types of games than others. For instance, Deep Blue--the computer that takes on world-ranked grandmasters in chess games--uses one kind of AI. The VC in "Vietnam 2 Special Assignment" use another. The ghosts in Pac-man use still another.

    In each case, the computer opponent follows a set of rules that take the current state of the game as input, and produce an action as output. For example, Deep Blue might have a rule that says: "If I'm in check, move my knight to block". The VC might have a rule like, "If there's no enemy around, clean my weapon." You get the idea. The ways the rules are expressed, their sensitivity to the current situation, and their "fuzziness" (i.e., does the computer always produce the same action in a set circumstance, or does it have a range of possible responses) all affect the computer's ability to reason.

    In the case of the VC, they can reason, as long as that means "make a decision about what to do in a situation." What they *can't* do is respond intelligently to every situation they encounter. It sounds like the AI in that game is pretty good, but you'll probably be able to find a situation where a soldier tries to shoot you through a wall, or where he "gets stuck" behind a big rock and can't figure out how to reach you. In cases like these, the character's rule set tells him to take an action like "run around the rock"--but then he gets blocked during the run, so his rules tell him "run the other way" and he's back where he started--round and round he goes. A human being in this situation would (hopefully) realize that his rules weren't working and would come up with a new solution. Most computer opponents can't do that.

    Again, the case of the VC, their programmers have told them how to respond when there's no enemy around, when there's an enemy that they can't see (like you in "ghost" mode), and when there's an enemy that they can see (firefight!). That pretty much covers all the possibilities in the game, so it appears that the characters can respond to your every move. Now imagine that you could do something entirely unpredictable--like assume the guise of a VC, infiltrate the camp, and start picking people off. Since that's not a scenario the VC understand, their AI wouldn't respond very well--even though to you and me, it would be obvious to attack the spy.

    Sorry for the long post--I hope that answers your question.

    Have fun with the game!

    Kreitler


    : Hello :-)
    :
    : Since I figured out how to use the cheat codes in the "Vietnam 2 Special Assignment" game, I've come to think that the VC characters are able to reason within the game. Is this true?
    :
    : Example: When I type in the "ghost" code, I disappear. Prior to that I was being chased and shot at by the charging VC. Then in the ghost mode the characters seemed to be puzzled as to where I went. They mill around searching for me in the spot that I took my leave. They actually look puzzled in the expressions on their faces. Then, when I reappear (usually to their rear) I toss a grenade over their heads and they scurry for safety and of course start a new firefight to take me out.
    :
    : And one last thing: I've traveled through all 12 levels in the ghost mode just to see what is going on inside the game without making contact. To my amazement, the characters are actively walking guard and doing other things related to their duties. Which might explain why they are not always in the same exact spots, and the numbers vary during the replay of the levels. In fact, I've altered the games firefights by appearing in places (up on high peaks with enemy lookouts and other seemingly forbidden areas for the normal run of the game)that I shouldn't have normal access to. However, the characters adapt to whatever the situation calls for. Although they seem surprised that I'm in a particular location I shouldn't be.
    :
    : Oh yes, if you ever play that game, to get out of a cheat mode, you just type the T and then retype the name of the cheat code you want back to normal. You can go in and out constantly, and you can cross the blocked barriers (open space where you see another area of the game, but I guess the originators want blocked off so that you follow a correct route, because eventually you end up in that area)by using the "ghost" mode.
    :
    : Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! ---Jack
    :





  • JackCJackC Posts: 7Member
    Mark, thanks for that insight! I can recall a few instances in which the VC did react as you pointed out.

    I appreciate your taking the time to answer. Have a GRAND week! ---Jack


    : [b][red]This message was edited by kreitler at 2003-4-14 7:28:12[/red][/b][hr]
    : Hi Jack,
    : So...[italic]are[/italic] the computer-controller characters reasoning? Good question. The answer is..."probably, sort of."
    :
    : There are a bunch of ways to implement game AI, and some work better for various types of games than others. For instance, Deep Blue--the computer that takes on world-ranked grandmasters in chess games--uses one kind of AI. The VC in "Vietnam 2 Special Assignment" use another. The ghosts in Pac-man use still another.
    :
    : In each case, the computer opponent follows a set of rules that take the current state of the game as input, and produce an action as output. For example, Deep Blue might have a rule that says: "If I'm in check, move my knight to block". The VC might have a rule like, "If there's no enemy around, clean my weapon." You get the idea. The ways the rules are expressed, their sensitivity to the current situation, and their "fuzziness" (i.e., does the computer always produce the same action in a set circumstance, or does it have a range of possible responses) all affect the computer's ability to reason.
    :
    : In the case of the VC, they can reason, as long as that means "make a decision about what to do in a situation." What they *can't* do is respond intelligently to every situation they encounter. It sounds like the AI in that game is pretty good, but you'll probably be able to find a situation where a soldier tries to shoot you through a wall, or where he "gets stuck" behind a big rock and can't figure out how to reach you. In cases like these, the character's rule set tells him to take an action like "run around the rock"--but then he gets blocked during the run, so his rules tell him "run the other way" and he's back where he started--round and round he goes. A human being in this situation would (hopefully) realize that his rules weren't working and would come up with a new solution. Most computer opponents can't do that.
    :
    : Again, the case of the VC, their programmers have told them how to respond when there's no enemy around, when there's an enemy that they can't see (like you in "ghost" mode), and when there's an enemy that they can see (firefight!). That pretty much covers all the possibilities in the game, so it appears that the characters can respond to your every move. Now imagine that you could do something entirely unpredictable--like assume the guise of a VC, infiltrate the camp, and start picking people off. Since that's not a scenario the VC understand, their AI wouldn't respond very well--even though to you and me, it would be obvious to attack the spy.
    :
    : Sorry for the long post--I hope that answers your question.
    :
    : Have fun with the game!
    :
    : Kreitler
    :
    :
    : : Hello :-)
    : :
    : : Since I figured out how to use the cheat codes in the "Vietnam 2 Special Assignment" game, I've come to think that the VC characters are able to reason within the game. Is this true?
    : :
    : : Example: When I type in the "ghost" code, I disappear. Prior to that I was being chased and shot at by the charging VC. Then in the ghost mode the characters seemed to be puzzled as to where I went. They mill around searching for me in the spot that I took my leave. They actually look puzzled in the expressions on their faces. Then, when I reappear (usually to their rear) I toss a grenade over their heads and they scurry for safety and of course start a new firefight to take me out.
    : :
    : : And one last thing: I've traveled through all 12 levels in the ghost mode just to see what is going on inside the game without making contact. To my amazement, the characters are actively walking guard and doing other things related to their duties. Which might explain why they are not always in the same exact spots, and the numbers vary during the replay of the levels. In fact, I've altered the games firefights by appearing in places (up on high peaks with enemy lookouts and other seemingly forbidden areas for the normal run of the game)that I shouldn't have normal access to. However, the characters adapt to whatever the situation calls for. Although they seem surprised that I'm in a particular location I shouldn't be.
    : :
    : : Oh yes, if you ever play that game, to get out of a cheat mode, you just type the T and then retype the name of the cheat code you want back to normal. You can go in and out constantly, and you can cross the blocked barriers (open space where you see another area of the game, but I guess the originators want blocked off so that you follow a correct route, because eventually you end up in that area)by using the "ghost" mode.
    : :
    : : Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! ---Jack
    : :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :
    :

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